AuthorTopic: Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.  (Read 5584 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jake

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 5474
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • <insert witty comment here>
    • South Molton, Devon. UK
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« on: October 07, 2006, 10:41:16 »
Sorry if this is in the wrong place but i wanted it to be seen so i can gather lots of opinion and information

I'm going to change the 4 spot lights on my roof bar soon as i have now found out how weak mine are at night.
I'm thinking of getting 2 pairs of these

Quote from: "Devon 4x4 website"
Lightforce 140 Lights
The compact 140 'Lance' is ideal for installation on smaller vehicles.
Despite its size the RMDL140 provides a very noticeable increase in visibility on the road, enhancing driver confidence and safety.
Variable focus with optional clip-on filters
Lightweight for less vibration
Super strong polyamide hi-tech construction
Hi-impact polycarbonate lens
12v 75 watt Xenophot long life bulb
110 000 candlepower output (approx)
Supplied with clear polycarbonate covers
Optional wide angle clear filters
Optional wide angle yellow filters
Available in high or low mount
Supplied in a pair.
Price : £ 135.13 inc VAT

Thats £270.36 for 4  :shock:
Whats everyones opinion on these lights?
Are they really the ones to go for or should i consider anything else?
I want good road driving lights (its quite dark on some of the roads around here) and perfect lights for night laning.
Please, give me your suggestions
Jake

Owner - Land Rover Discovery 2
Driver - Land Rover Defender 100" Trayback

Offline paul_humphreys

  • Posts: 2181
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2006, 11:16:48 »
Very good lights, but at a price. I would go for something cheeper, so it cost less when they get smashed :shock: .

Have a look at Cibies, cost a lot less and work very well.

Paul
LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper STTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch. Factory lockers. HD rear bumper with wheel carrier and winch mount.

http://www.crag-uk.org


Offline landroverkeith

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 2400
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Wilby
    • wilby, northants
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 11:18:28 »
lol i got mine from halfrauds 20 a set and i think there pretty good too
2004 D2 TD5 es Premium - R99 MUD
1965 Series 2a 88" V8 "rag top"          
2000 TD5 Es - W99 MUD
Sankey Trailer
        
 

Offline bronco

  • Posts: 203
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 12:10:13 »
I've switched to KC's on my road rally car this year-decent throw and nice pencil beam-just got the bulb ones this time but on a par with those for candle power plus 23yr warranty-think I got em for 90 a pair.

Some people who road rally use those lightforce lights and rate them but not oop North as we're all too tight :lol:

Offline Xtremeteam

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 6476
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Its just the way i roll
    • lampeter, west wales
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2006, 12:25:19 »
if i had the ££ id have lightforce without thinking about it,dont particularly rate cibie as every set ive used has started to rust after about 2 years,currently have hellas on my 90 & they are brill
Mike
I can Drive.. You can criticize..
I too can criticize like you.. but can you Drive like me??


Offline paul_humphreys

  • Posts: 2181
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2006, 12:40:19 »
I have a pair or Hella Rally 2000 lights waiting to go on my 110. £5 from the car boot!!

Paul
LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper STTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch. Factory lockers. HD rear bumper with wheel carrier and winch mount.

http://www.crag-uk.org


Offline bronco

  • Posts: 203
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2006, 12:46:08 »
Quote from: "RedlineMike"
dont particularly rate cibie as every set ive used has started to rust after about 2 years


Just as well I didn't buy that set off ya then :wink:

Doin recovery on the Cheviot?

Offline Xtremeteam

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 6476
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Its just the way i roll
    • lampeter, west wales
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2006, 12:51:13 »
Quote from: "bronco"
Quote from: "RedlineMike"
dont particularly rate cibie as every set ive used has started to rust after about 2 years


Just as well I didn't buy that set off ya then :wink:

Doin recovery on the Cheviot?

TBH probably,i dunno if ill be down...

& the ones that i had forsale had no rust in them,simply for the fact that they hadnt been on a motor  :lol:  :lol: did get a good deal for them in the end though  :wink:
Mike
I can Drive.. You can criticize..
I too can criticize like you.. but can you Drive like me??


Offline fatusbloke

  • Posts: 102
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2006, 13:14:28 »
Go with the lightforce one if you can afford them, top notch lights,
seen a review where they had a shotgun fired at them and still worked, didn't even breach the lamp, them they fired a rifle round though them and they still worked,
 Also came out top in a comparison test, completly trounced the other lights for output and pattern
I'm an agent of Satan - but my duties are now mostly cerimonial.

 Land Rovers - Attracted to water like Fly's to POO POO.

Offline dreadnought110

  • Posts: 1157
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2006, 13:51:41 »
:D Did consider the lightforce but 2 reasons why i didn't go for them was 1 i think (not 100% sure) but they have there own style of bulb which is very hard to get and expensive!! and 2 i work for a hella dealer and get staff discount!! LOL :lol:  :lol:
Don't waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself. !!!

Offline freeagent

  • Posts: 351
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2006, 14:20:10 »
they look great and i'm sure they are realy good, but i smashed two roof lights on my old defender, by catching them on branches and stuff whist laning... if i put roof lights on my disco they'll be cheapie ring driving lights... £20 per pair.

if you don't think you're likely to whack them on anything, then go for it...
1996 300Tdi 3-Door Discovery...

H/D Steering rods, Steering guards, diff guards, discoparts H/D rear bumper, rocksliders with tree bars, 245/75r16 General Grabber AT2's..

Offline Minotaur

  • Posts: 46
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2006, 16:37:43 »
Those Light Force look good quality - but have no personal experience of them.

Best from my experience are PIAA

Chris

Offline dreadnought110

  • Posts: 1157
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2006, 19:17:00 »
Quote from: "fatusbloke"
Go with the lightforce one if you can afford them, top notch lights,
seen a review where they had a shotgun fired at them and still worked, didn't even breach the lamp, them they fired a rifle round though them and they still worked,
 Also came out top in a comparison test, completly trounced the other lights for output and pattern
 Slighly worrying how they think that someone would ever be faced with this situation?? :shock: And was this test done in america??? :?
Don't waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself. !!!

Offline fatusbloke

  • Posts: 102
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2006, 19:24:21 »
Test was done in Oz, and i think a test like that proves they're stand up to stone chips on a motorway and such like
I'm an agent of Satan - but my duties are now mostly cerimonial.

 Land Rovers - Attracted to water like Fly's to POO POO.

Offline Devon-Rover

  • Posts: 748
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • Tavistock
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2006, 21:07:39 »
If you want to buy me a set I'll test them for you and report back.  :wink:
Rowan.

"Jemima" 2.25 Petrol SWB, ACR rear Silencer, 235/85 Macho's, MAP Capstan & HD Bumper, Tweeked suspension, CB, Light Bar.
"Baker" 2.6 Petrol LWB (former Tow Truck)
"Lizi" 4.2 V8i Discovery, Gone but not forgotten.
"Kate" 1985 Ninety 4.2 V8 Auto, Stainless exhaust, Ashcroft Tunnel, Mud console, Polmar Venus CB, HD Steering bars, Terrafirma Steering damper, D44 Winch Bumper, Superwinch EP9.5, Superwinch Wireless controls, QT Diff Guards. 'More toys to come'


Vorsprung Duch Ducktape. My website Searle Safari Info source.

Offline Jake

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 5474
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • <insert witty comment here>
    • South Molton, Devon. UK
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2006, 21:26:49 »
Quote from: "dreadnought110"
Quote from: "fatusbloke"
Go with the lightforce one if you can afford them, top notch lights,
seen a review where they had a shotgun fired at them and still worked, didn't even breach the lamp, them they fired a rifle round though them and they still worked,
 Also came out top in a comparison test, completly trounced the other lights for output and pattern
 Slighly worrying how they think that someone would ever be faced with this situation?? :shock: And was this test done in america??? :?


I've heard of 2 reports on trying to destroy Light Force spots.
First was a shot gun which scratched the replaceable lense and the second was a .22 rifle which went through the whole thing but it still worked.
Sounds quite strong to me  :wink:
Jake

Owner - Land Rover Discovery 2
Driver - Land Rover Defender 100" Trayback

Offline Xtremeteam

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 6476
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Its just the way i roll
    • lampeter, west wales
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2006, 22:27:28 »
copied from D4x4


Quote from: "devon 4x4"
May the force be with you !

Are these the best off road lights you can get ?

It’s all too easy for a manufacturer to ‘big-up’ their product with superlatives and fanciful claims when they know full well that no one is ever going to be able to bother to put those claims to the test. When LRW received the blurb on a new range of spotlamps from Lightforce claiming they were ‘bullet-proof’ and that if we were in any doubt about the companies claim we should: ‘just take our word for it’, not surprisingly, eyebrows were raised. Bullet-proof spotlamps? Surely not. But how are you, the punter, supposed to disprove their claim? You’re not exactly going to go out buy yourself a £120.00 set of lamps and fingers crossed, shoot them up in the hope Lightforce are telling the truth are you? You might not be willing to do that, but we were…

We had our pair of sacrificial pair of lamps, all we needed now was a gun… I don’t hold a firearms licence, but thankfully I know a man who does. Adopting a scientific approach, the LRW test facility, enlisted the help of not just any old Sunday clay pigeon shooter, but one of this countries leading experts in gun related matters. Colin Greenwood is the retired ex Chief Inspector of the West Yorkshire Police force, the former editor of the Gun Review and the author of the definitive piece of test on .

Before Colin loaded up his guns though, we thought we ought to test another of Lightforce’s impressive claims, that although not quite as extraordinary as ‘bullet proof’ is something that will be of more practical use for the most of us. Lightforce claim their lamps are waterproof. Our test facility (my garage) used the highly sophisticated controlled immersion test, utilising a bucket of water and a lamp weighed down with a house brick.

After leaving a lamp overnight in the bucket I can report that the following morning no moisture was present inside the lamp. Lightforce uses its own unique method of attaching the lamp body to the bulb holder/lamp bracket assembly. The whole of the lamp/lens body screws onto the threaded portion of the bulb holder, sealing itself using no less than three neoprene seals incorporating within the threaded section of the bulb holder. The wiring into the lamp is also sealed effectively within the lamp bracket to create, as far as our tests found, a truly waterproof lamp.

Okay, so we proved the waterproof claim was 100% genuine. So what? What we really wanted to put to the test was their resistance to a speeding bullet. Contained within the Lightforce press-release were full details of the original Lightforce tests carried out with help from the Australian Police. Using this information, we were able to replicate the same tests, even down to the type of firearm and ammunition used.

Lightforce don’t use glass for their lamp lenses, but a lightweight polycarbonate material called ‘Lexan’ that looks and feels just like plastic. On a purely touchy-feely level, Lightforce lamps are so lightweight to the touch, they feel almost too cheap and plastic, to warrant the £140.00 asking price the cheapest model in the range will set you back. However, as we were about to find out, making them from Lexan is equally, what makes them so strong.

The lamp lenses are protected by a clip-on filter that although available in a range of colours for different driving conditions or emergency vehicle applications comes as a plain clear filter as standard. We clipped the filters onto our RDML 140’s and took cover at a safe distance while Colin trained the telescopic sight on his Ruger rifle on the lamp positioned 100metrres away.

Up close, a .22 shell doesn’t the look the most fearsome piece of ammo in the world but as the substantial impression in our home made steel mounting bracket from Colin’s first low shot proved, you definitely wouldn’t want one to hit you between the eyes. Colin’s second shot was spot-on. The bullet passed straight through the filter and the lamp body, creating a small entry and exit hole. Read the blurb carefully, and Lightforce actually claim their lamps are ‘Shatterproof’. Where the bullet passed through the back of the lamp reflector, a split had appeared, but true to their word, it hadn’t shattered. The filter and lamp body had barely a flesh wound.

Next up, Colin swapped the Ruger rifle for his Winchester over and under shotgun and moved up to the much closer distance of fifteen metres. Once again, we emerged from our hidey hole to find the lamp had survived. The filter was peppered with small indentations from the round , but not a single pellet of number seven shot had managed to penetrate the polycarbonate filter.

After having being drowned and shot at, we rigged both lamps up to a 12v power source and whadya know, they still worked! Are these the best off-road spotlamps you can buy? On the evidence of our own test results; we’d have no option but to say ‘yes!’

Available in a range of sizes (140mm, 170mm, 240mm) Lightforce prices start at £115 (ex-vat) for a pair of the compact 140mm units.
For further details contact Devon 4x4: 01769 550900 or www.devon4x4.com

Click here for details of Lightforce 170 'Striker'
Mike
I can Drive.. You can criticize..
I too can criticize like you.. but can you Drive like me??


Offline stevegreen

  • Posts: 56
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2006, 16:49:56 »
Anyone tried the X Lites?



Look a very good solution to having the lamps knocked and smashed when playing in the woods  :)

PUX

  • Guest
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2006, 18:06:12 »
jake dude i have been looking at KC daylighters a pair for 89 pound ill find the link  :D


Offline Jake

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 5474
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • <insert witty comment here>
    • South Molton, Devon. UK
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2006, 18:18:02 »
They look very smart.
What diameter are they?
Not as 'bullit proof' as light force though  :wink:
Imagine hitting the main beams and saying "feel the force" or "may the force be with you"
sad, yes i know.
 :lol:
Jake

Owner - Land Rover Discovery 2
Driver - Land Rover Defender 100" Trayback

PUX

  • Guest
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2006, 18:19:15 »
Quote from: "Jake"
They look very smart.
What diameter are they?
Not as 'bullit proof' as light force though  :wink:
Imagine hitting the main beams and saying "feel the force" or "may the force be with you"
sad, yes i know.
 :lol:
yeah i ruled the light force out cus of cost thats why i might end up with the day lighters i think there 6" bet thats wot they all say lmao soz  :lol:

Offline Jake

  • Regional Rep
  • *
  • Posts: 5474
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • <insert witty comment here>
    • South Molton, Devon. UK
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2006, 18:29:17 »
Well, it is cold  :wink:
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Jake

Owner - Land Rover Discovery 2
Driver - Land Rover Defender 100" Trayback

PUX

  • Guest
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2006, 18:32:43 »
Quote from: "Jake"
Well, it is cold  :wink:
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :shock:

Offline dreadnought110

  • Posts: 1157
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2006, 18:35:24 »
:D This is mine on main beam!! 8)
Don't waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself. !!!

Offline matthew

  • Posts: 494
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2006, 01:16:39 »
We've got Cibie super oscars on the road rally car, but i've heard good things about Lightforce. As already said Daylighters and PIAA are also worth a look.

The picture above just demonstrates why you should avoid Hella.

As you probably don't have to worry about the MSA or the Blur Book it might be worth thinking about HID lamps, just 2 of instead of 4 though on cost grounds.
Cheers

Matthew
1958 Ser II  88" 1962 Ser IIa 109" 1962 Ser IIa 109" Dormobile
www.buryautoclub.co.uk | www.torquebac.co.uk | www.oldlandrovers.co.uk | www.oldroads.co.uk | http://lancsglass.oldroads.co.uk

Offline dreadnought110

  • Posts: 1157
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2006, 07:07:32 »
Quote from: "matthew"
We've got Cibie super oscars on the road rally car, but i've heard good things about Lightforce. As already said Daylighters and PIAA are also worth a look.

The picture above just demonstrates why you should avoid Hella.

As you probably don't have to worry about the MSA or the Blur Book it might be worth thinking about HID lamps, just 2 of instead of 4 though on cost grounds.
Thanks Buddy the still above is from a video just going over the brow of a hill and if you think hella are such rubbish why did quite a few rally teams use hella?? all i was saying is i like hella i couldn't afford lightforce i used to have cibie pencil beams and they where brilliant but they started to rust on the reflector and the body!! the hella's have outlasted them!! :?  :? So why are you so against them?? :?
Don't waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself. !!!

Offline Henry Webster

  • Posts: 912
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2006, 08:39:55 »
Don't think there's much wrong with Hellas, but you need to compare like with like.

Its worth checking out what the road rallying boys and girls are using, because with all events taking place overnight they really need to know where they are going.

I haven't done a road event for a few years, but the last time I was out I used a 15-20yr old set of KC Daylighters and they were fantastic.  I've got a set of Hellas (I think 2000's) on the rally Discovery, but they are not as impressive, but as I say they are not exactly like for like!

Cibie Oscars and Super Oscars are tough (have seen many accidents where virtually only the spots have survived intact.), but they are big units.  Cibie Turinis are equally impressive, but with plastic instead of metal bodies (so no rust).  PIAA do a great range, but I have little personal experience.

Hope this helps (have you noticed I like KCs! and the prices in PUX's link look very good.)

Offline matthew

  • Posts: 494
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2006, 11:04:08 »
Quote from: "dreadnought110"
Quote from: "matthew"
We've got Cibie super oscars on the road rally car, but i've heard good things about Lightforce. As already said Daylighters and PIAA are also worth a look.

The picture above just demonstrates why you should avoid Hella.

As you probably don't have to worry about the MSA or the Blur Book it might be worth thinking about HID lamps, just 2 of instead of 4 though on cost grounds.
Thanks Buddy the still above is from a video just going over the brow of a hill and if you think hella are such rubbish why did quite a few rally teams use hella?? all i was saying is i like hella i couldn't afford lightforce i used to have cibie pencil beams and they where brilliant but they started to rust on the reflector and the body!! the hella's have outlasted them!! :?  :? So why are you so against them?? :?


Ok, it was late when I wrote that and I probably should explain a bit more.

For the current road rally driver's first event earlier this year he'd put a new pair of Hella 2000s on the car, they were ok but not stunning. Anyway we had a minor off and smashed one of them, for the second event they'd been swapped for some second hand super oscars and the difference was massive even with less than perfect reflectors. These have survived a second minor off and an impact with a sheep.



I've added a couple of notes to your picture, basically they don't look to be throwing the light far enough. 50m or so (which is what it looks like) might be ok laning but is getting marginal even at Land-Rover speeds on the road.

Hope that explains a bit more.
Cheers

Matthew
1958 Ser II  88" 1962 Ser IIa 109" 1962 Ser IIa 109" Dormobile
www.buryautoclub.co.uk | www.torquebac.co.uk | www.oldlandrovers.co.uk | www.oldroads.co.uk | http://lancsglass.oldroads.co.uk

Offline matthew

  • Posts: 494
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Spot lights. Which ones to go for? Advice please.
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2006, 11:09:26 »
Oops, meant to add to previous post

http://www.britishrally.co.uk/forum/ would be a good place to search for opinions on lights, though a lot of the older threads were lost in a recent move.
Cheers

Matthew
1958 Ser II  88" 1962 Ser IIa 109" 1962 Ser IIa 109" Dormobile
www.buryautoclub.co.uk | www.torquebac.co.uk | www.oldlandrovers.co.uk | www.oldroads.co.uk | http://lancsglass.oldroads.co.uk

 






SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal