Brakes wont bleed! What ?

[ringo]

Dudes,

My brakes wont bleed - there is air in the system (the brakes get better when i pump them).

I have changed the master brake cylinder and pumped soooo much brake fluid through its not funny.

There doesn't appear to be a leak - and i can't seem to get air out of any of the brake cylinders - so where could the air be ?

Has anyone experienced the same thing?

Any ideas on what to do next ?

Thanks

Ringo

[GREENI]

Have you done it (bled)  in the right order ????

In my honest opinion, from my memory, eeeek,
it should be  nsr, osr, osf, nsf...I refuse to go down to the workshop and look in the manual !!!

[ringo]

I started furthest away and went closer each wheel!

Is that the correct order ?

God i hope its something as simple as that :)

Ringo

[GREENI]

See edit version !!

[muck_truck]

have you tried using a easy bleed ??  makes the job so much easier i find than pumping away at the pedal.  

Always seem to have more sucess that way as well.

[ringo]

have you tried using a easy bleed ??  makes the job so much easier i find than pumping away at the pedal.  

Always seem to have more sucess that way as well.

Oh yes - easy bleed all the way - thats why i know i've put so much fluid through!

Greeni - i did it back to front from your version - will that make a difference ?

Thanks for the tip - im not entirely convinced that will be the solution though!

Ringo

[GREENI]

Look in a manual...it was 2 years when i did mine, worked 1st time....CHECK FIRST though, i could be wrong :oops:  not all you read on forums is true !!!

[V8MoneyPit]

Hi Rich.

Once you pump the pedal up, is it good and solid? If so, it isn't air in the system. Air will always compress wherever it is in the system and give a spomgy pedal. If you can pump the pedal up to give a 'good pedal', it is meaning the linings are too far away from the metal. Does yours have drums at the rear? If so, I would suggest they need adjusting.

Try clamping all the hoses and try the pedal. If you get an instant pedal, you know the problem is at one of the wheels. Remove one clamp at a time and check the pedal. When the pedal drops to the floor, you know where the problem is.

However, if the pedal is always spongy, try my method as described here:
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=49264
It's never failed to work for me.

[L90OOK]

Does yours have drums at the rear? If so, I would suggest they need adjusting.

My thoughts too  8)

[spinkster]

I had the same problem and after much bleeding and cursing and adjusting i ended up changing the servo...........it's as good as you can get on a 110 now!

[ringo]

Steve,

your a legend as always - i will give that a go at the weekend. What do you use for clamps? I havent got four sets of mole grips!

I will adjust the rear drums first mind ;)

Thanks guys - lets hope its not a servo needed.

Ringo

 

Hi Rich.

Once you pump the pedal up, is it good and solid? If so, it isn't air in the system. Air will always compress wherever it is in the system and give a spomgy pedal. If you can pump the pedal up to give a 'good pedal', it is meaning the linings are too far away from the metal. Does yours have drums at the rear? If so, I would suggest they need adjusting.

Try clamping all the hoses and try the pedal. If you get an instant pedal, you know the problem is at one of the wheels. Remove one clamp at a time and check the pedal. When the pedal drops to the floor, you know where the problem is.

However, if the pedal is always spongy, try my method as described here:
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=49264
It's never failed to work for me.

[V8MoneyPit]

Just noticed I described a 'spomgy pedal'  :lol: If it isn't a word I think I should start a campaign to get it into the OED  :lol:

[Mutz]

Steve, i have a brake problem on my 90!
But i was going to ask if your breaking your V8 as you implied you might?
Problem i have is servo doesnt appear to operate the brakes, pedal is stiff to start with, but servo doesnt seem to assist brakes.
Pump sucks at low pressure, if i remove the master cylinder and put cling film on the servo this sucks in again at low pressure. If i push the the plunger on the master it goes in about a quarter of an inch, does all this sound right?
Have been told that servo and pump are working as they should so im stuck now, any ideas?

Graham

 :oops:  sorry Ringo didnt meen to hijack your thread, hope you dont mind?

[ringo]

:oops:  sorry Ringo didnt meen to hijack your thread, hope you dont mind?

LOL - you go ahead mate - hope you can get it sorted.

I can't do anything till the weekend.....

Ringo

[V8MoneyPit]

Steve, i have a brake problem on my 90!
But i was going to ask if your breaking your V8 as you implied you might?
Problem i have is servo doesnt appear to operate the brakes, pedal is stiff to start with, but servo doesnt seem to assist brakes.
Pump sucks at low pressure, if i remove the master cylinder and put cling film on the servo this sucks in again at low pressure. If i push the the plunger on the master it goes in about a quarter of an inch, does all this sound right?
Have been told that servo and pump are working as they should so im stuck now, any ideas?

Graham

If you press the brake pedal prior to starting the car, then when you start the car the pedal should sink down after a second or so. If this happens, the servo is operating correctly.

Not sure what the stroke of the cylinder should be, but that doesn't sound out of order.

I've never figured it out, but they can all feel different even though I believe all the servos and master cylinders are the same. My 90's brake pedal feels totally different to the 110 and I remember littlepow's felt different again.

[ringo]

Well, i feel relieved and silly at the same time. :oops:

Adjusting the rear drums did the trick!

Thanks for all your help...

Ringo

[Mutz]

And mine appears to be the pump; checked the suction against Pondy's and mine comes nowhere near the same.

[Range Rover Blues]

Sometimes I find it helps to bleed some air out of the brake pipe unions at the master cylinder first before going to the wheel cylinders.